From cbosgd!cborion.!djb Wed Aug 21 12:49:01 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA14255; Wed, 21 Aug 85 12:48:46 edt Posted-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 10:53:54 edt Received: from cborion.cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (cborion.ARPA) by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA23369; Wed, 21 Aug 85 10:56:19 edt Received: by cborion.cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.24/3.14) id AA08603; Wed, 21 Aug 85 10:53:54 edt Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 10:53:54 edt From: djb@cborion (David J. Bryant) Message-Id: <8508211453.AA08603@cborion.cbosgd.ATT.UUCP> To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: Re: Suggested newsgroup changes Status: RO Gene, I'm opposed to moving net.astro, net.bio, net.space, and net.physics to subgroups of net.sci. Although I can see how it might be argued that it improves the organization of newsgroups, I can't see any real benefit to applying this kind of "outline form" reasoning to naming newsgroups. Practically, I suppose the main advantage is that someone could unsubscribe to all science related groups at once, rather than have to explicitly list each one in their .newsrc file. Give the general make up of news readers, I have to believe that the number of people that this move would convenience would be far outweighed by the number of people that have to type the extra letters in newsgroup names, and wade through extra directories to find files. I feel that large scientific areas like astronomy, biology, physics, (and chemistry, geography, etc. by extension) are sufficiently large to merit their own newsgroup. One might be tempted to draw parallels here with the organizational rules used in the design and use of encyclopedias. A smaller, specialized sub-topic is filed under the main topic. ( net.games.frp, net.micro.cpm, etc.). Larger topics with broad coverage and scope are listed separately. Sorry I can't give a more compelling set of arguments against the change. It's not satisfactory to say "I don't like it", but in this case somehow the proposed change "doesn't feel right", unlike others that seemed quite reasonable. Suggestion #5 sounds o.k. to me. Also, I'm opposed to moving net.columbia into net.space. Based on my interpretation of the traffic, you're dealing with different (perhaps subtly so) communities. Besides, by the reasoning used for Suggestions #1-4, you should move it to net.sci.space.columbia, which I think you might agree looks and sounds quite inappropriate. Suggestion #7 is very judgmental. Despite the attitude that some folks take toward abortion, it's not necessarily a "flame" topic. Moving the group there would equate abortion traffic with flame traffic, which places it at nearly the lowest level of the netnews evolutionary ladder (just above net.jokes). I don't read net.abortion, so I can't say whether this move is appropriate from content, but from intent, it doesn't sound good to me. Likewise for Suggestion #8. We have to be quite careful what is done under the guise of "reorganizing" netnews. I'd like to see reasonable justification for any such change. Certainly "lack of traffic", and "anacronistic naming conventions" are two good reasons for a change, but otherwise it should be in the best interest of the majority of news readers, particularly those folks using the group(s) in question. Imposing excessive structure doesn't necessarily improve utility or user satisfaction. I appreciate your approach of soliciting general comments on proposed/suggested changes. Keep us posted on the number and variety of responses... David Bryant AT&T Bell Laboratories Columbus, OH (614) 860-4516 (cbosgd!djb) From tynor@gitpyr.GTNET Wed Aug 21 13:54:00 1985 Received: from gitpyr.GTNET (gitpyr.ARPA) by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA15155; Wed, 21 Aug 85 13:53:47 edt Received: by gitpyr.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA05897; Wed, 21 Aug 85 13:54:25 edt Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 13:54:25 edt From: Steve Tynor Posted-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 13:54:25 edt Message-Id: <8508211754.AA05897@gitpyr.GTNET> To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Newsgroups: net.announce In-Reply-To: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Cc: Status: RO In article <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> you write: >Suggestion 7: move "net.abortion" to "net.flame.abortion" >Suggestion 8: move "net.origins" to "net.flame.origins" I don't think either of these are warrented... even though many of the articles in these groups tend to be flames, that is not the intended purpose of the groups, and I'm afraid it would just encourage the flamers and keep more serious posters away... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid altogether. Steve Tynor Georgia Instutute of Technology ...{akgua, allegra, amd, harpo, hplabs, ihnp4, masscomp, ut-ngp, rlgvax, sb1, uf-cgrl, unmvax, ut-sally} !gatech!gitpyr!tynor From ulysses!allegra!pyramid!sugar.csg Wed Aug 21 15:08:04 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA16334; Wed, 21 Aug 85 15:07:54 edt Posted-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 10:32:42 pdt Received: by ulysses.UUCP; Wed, 21 Aug 85 14:50:26 edt Received: from sugar (pyrsugar.ARPA) by pyramid (4.12/3.14) id AA22591; Wed, 21 Aug 85 10:35:43 pdt Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 10:32:42 pdt From: ulysses!allegra!pyramid!sugar.csg (Carl Gutekunst) Message-Id: <8508211732.AA05350@sugar> Received: by sugar (4.12/3.14) id AA05350; Wed, 21 Aug 85 10:32:42 pdt To: allegra!ulysses!gatech!spaf Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Newsgroups: net.announce In-Reply-To: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Organization: Pyramid Technology, Mt. View, CA Cc: Status: RO >Change 1: rename "net.notes" to "net.news.notes" >Change 2: rename "mod.map.uucp" to "mod.map" >Change 3: rename "net.chess" to "net.games.chess" No problems. In general, it makes good sense to clean up the "top levels" of each group. >Suggestion 1: move "net.bio" to "net.sci.bio" >Suggestion 2: move "net.astro" to "net.sci.astro" >Suggestion 3: move "net.physics" to "net.sci.physics" >Suggestion 4: move "net.space" to "net.sci.space" Probably good to make a net.sci, although I don't know if it's improvement enough to justify the hassle to a few thousand SAs. >Suggestion 6: drop "net.columbia" in favor of "net.space" (see #4) !!!NO!!! The discussion group that meets in net.columbia is very different from that in net.space; the former is more technical, and more professional. While the traffic in net.columbia is not high, it is steady, enough so to warrent its own group. You will also find very few cross postings between them. >Suggestion 7: move "net.abortion" to "net.flame.abortion" >Suggestion 8: move "net.origins" to "net.flame.origins" This bothers me since it implies that the only thing going on in these groups is flaming, i.e. there is no meaningful discussion. (That's probably true, but beside the point. :-)) These are relavent issues that are very important to many people; grouping them under "flame" is belittling. -- -- -m------- Carl S. Gutekunst, Software R&D, Pyramid Technology ---mmm----- P.O. Box 7295, Mountain View, CA 94039 415/965-7200 -----mmmmm--- UUCP: {allegra,decwrl,Shasta,sun,topaz!pyrnj}!pyramid!csg -------mmmmmmm- ARPA: pyramid!csg@sri-unix.ARPA From ihnp4!icarus!alb Wed Aug 21 19:41:41 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA18568; Wed, 21 Aug 85 19:41:35 edt From: Posted-Date: 21 Aug 85 08:02:02 CDT (Wed) Message-Id: <8508212341.AA18568@gatech.GTNET> Date: 21 Aug 85 08:02:02 CDT (Wed) Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP id AA14516; 21 Aug 85 08:02:02 CDT (Wed) To: ihnp4!gatech!spaf Subject: net.columbia Status: RO From alice!cbosgd!cbosgd.ATT.UUCP!MAILER-DAEMON Wed Aug 21 08:15:04 1985 Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA21363; Wed, 21 Aug 85 08:14:44 edt Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 08:14:44 edt From: MAILER-DAEMON@cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <8508211214.AA21363@cbosgd.ATT.UUCP> To: alice!alb ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 spaf... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA21361; Wed, 21 Aug 85 08:14:44 edt Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 08:14:44 edt From: alice!alb Message-Id: <8508211214.AA21361@cbosgd.ATT.UUCP> To: spaf@cbosgd Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes References: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Cc: mark@cbosgd On the proposal to rename net.columbia, I would think that past experience speaks for itself. net.columbia was dropped a long time ago in favor of net.space. The result was that many, many people complained about having to go through the net.space articles just to get to the shuttle stuff. So net.columbia was put back. People have also tried to rename it, but most of the readers (and myself) prefer the nostalgical touch of net.columbia. In short, please don't mess with what is probably one of if not the most successful, useful, purposeful (and sticking to its purpose) newsgroups. Adam From ihnp4!lanl!crs Wed Aug 21 19:42:25 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA18591; Wed, 21 Aug 85 19:42:18 edt Posted-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 09:11:17 mdt Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP id AA02657; 21 Aug 85 16:27:06 CDT (Wed) Received: from a.ARPA by LANL.ARPA (4.12/4.7) id AA00501; Wed, 21 Aug 85 10:02:10 mdt Received: by a.ARPA (4.12/4.7) id AA16008; Wed, 21 Aug 85 09:11:17 mdt Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 09:11:17 mdt From: ihnp4!lanl!crs (Charlie Sorsby) Message-Id: <8508211511.AA16008@a.ARPA> To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes References: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Status: RO > After the last round of newsgroup deletions and the like, I > received a lot of mail expressing concerns and suggestions for > further reorganization of newsgroups. A few of those suggestions > made immediate sense, and others appear worth further comment. > > I am posting this to net.announce for public comment because I do not > intend to post a copy of this to each affected group, nor do I think > people will appreciate vast numbers of cross-posted followups should > any of these generate heated argument. If you feel the urge to post a > followup article, please do so to net.news.group, the group where > discussion about creation and deletion of newsgroups normally takes > place. > > > The first proposal currently before the net is to rename some groups > and thus provide a more meaningful and consistent name scheme. > > Change 1: rename "net.notes" to "net.news.notes" > Change 2: rename "mod.map.uucp" to "mod.map" Was there not, at one time net.map.usenet and net.map.uucp? If there will never be a mod.map.usenet then this change makes sense. I suspect the name has historical origins. > Change 3: rename "net.chess" to "net.games.chess" > > I am aware of no argument that could be made against any of these > changes, and many arguments for the changes. Therefore, if anyone has > what they consider to be a good reason NOT to make any (or all) of > these changes, please send me MAIL to that effect. Otherwise, I will > go ahead and change the groups around and post an article explaining to > people how to change their alias files. > > > Secondly, I have gotten the follow suggestions on which I > would appreciate feedback (other suggestions are also welcome): > > Suggestion 1: move "net.bio" to "net.sci.bio" > Suggestion 2: move "net.astro" to "net.sci.astro" Will that result in moving net.astro.expert to net.sci.astro.expert? I certainly hope it wouldn't result in removal of *.*.expert -- every once in a while some astronomer/astrophysicist type bitches about the fact that net.astro is carried on at a layman's level rather than that of a specialist. It's nice to be able to tell them where to go (without using the obvious destination :-). > Suggestion 3: move "net.physics" to "net.sci.physics" > Suggestion 4: move "net.space" to "net.sci.space" > Suggestion 5: combine "net.cse" and "net.college" into a (new) "net.edu" > Suggestion 6: drop "net.columbia" in favor of "net.space" (see #4) > Suggestion 7: move "net.abortion" to "net.flame.abortion" > Suggestion 8: move "net.origins" to "net.flame.origins" I understand the reason for this, especially in the case of # 7 BUT... I'm not at all sure it is a good idea to give all those pro/anti-abortion people even the slightest additional excuse to spread the gospel outside their assigned group. It is hard enough to keep them there as it is. I forsee them being *offended* by use of the flame designator (it doesn't matter that that is exactly what the vast majority of those postings are) and the concommittant (sp?) spill of those postings into net.women, net.legal, etc. Of course a second excuse will be that net.flame.abortion is too much to type. There may well be more that I haven't thought of. I *know* that these excuses are irrational but... While I'm generally in favor of the hierarchical approach to things, I also am a firm believer in the axiom "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." I wonder if some of these changes don't fall into the latter category. Best, Charlie From cbosgd!ukma!david Wed Aug 21 21:23:28 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA19535; Wed, 21 Aug 85 21:23:04 edt Posted-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 15:09:12 edt Received: by ukma.UUCP (4.12/4.7) id AA06931; Wed, 21 Aug 85 15:09:12 edt Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 15:09:12 edt From: david@ukma.UUCP (David Herron, NPR Lover) Message-Id: <8508211909.AA06931@ukma.UUCP> To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Newsgroups: net.announce, In-Reply-To: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Organization: Univ. of KY Mathematical Sciences Cc: Status: RO Since you wanna move abortion and origins (?why?) into flame, put religion and politics in there as well...? Otherwise it looks like a good list. The problem I see with the newsgroups is that they're "cluttered". There are multiple groups for the same subjects. And related groups are far apart on the list. I'm sure part of the reason for "I missed part x of y" postings appear in net.sources is because net.wanted.sources is far away from net.sources.* on the lists. -- --- David Herron --- ARPA-> ukma!david@ANL-MCS.ARPA --- UUCP-> {ucbvax,unmvax,boulder,oddjob}!anlams!ukma!david --- {ihnp4,decvax,ucbvax}!cbosgd!ukma!david Hackin's in me blood. My mother was known as Miss Hacker before she married! From chuqui@nsc.UUCP Thu Aug 22 01:21:14 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA21761; Thu, 22 Aug 85 01:21:10 edt Posted-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 22:21:06 pdt Received: by nsc.UUCP (4.12/4.7) id AA10854; Wed, 21 Aug 85 22:21:06 pdt Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 22:21:06 pdt From: chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) Message-Id: <8508220521.AA10854@nsc.UUCP> To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Newsgroups: net.announce In-Reply-To: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Organization: Uncle Chuqui's Lemming Farm Cc: Status: RO yes on all! You should be aware that you'll probably hear from the net.columbia crowd. If they do wish to keep themselves separate, suggest net.sci.space.shuttle or something... Good luck! chuq Chuq Von Rospach nsc!chuqui@decwrl.ARPA {decwrl,hplabs,ihnp4}!nsc!chuqui Son, you're mixing ponderables again From sb1!fluke!moriarty Thu Aug 22 11:38:37 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA27374; Thu, 22 Aug 85 11:38:30 edt Posted-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 08:37:12 pdt Received: by vax4.fluke.UUCP (4.12/5.1.1.1); Thu, 22 Aug 85 08:37:12 pdt Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 08:37:12 pdt From: moriarty@fluke.UUCP (Judge Moriarty Wapner) Message-Id: <8508221537.AA05141@vax4.fluke.UUCP> To: sb1!gatech!spaf Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Newsgroups: net.announce In-Reply-To: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA Cc: Status: RO Actually, all these changes make perfect sense to me. Realize this is nothing other than yes-saying, but after being bombarded by all sorts of pleas, threats, and personal attacks, you could use some judicial support. If you've got a flame, don't take it to the net. Take it to court. ****** STUPID PEOPLE'S COURT!! ****** Judge Moriarty Wapner Stupid People's Court ARPA: fluke!moriarty@uw-beaver.ARPA UUCP: {uw-beaver, sun, allegra, sb1, lbl-csam}!fluke!moriarty From seismo!rochester!ccice5!tim Thu Aug 22 13:43:34 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA28509; Thu, 22 Aug 85 13:43:17 edt From: Posted-Date: 22 Aug 85 12:03:47 EDT (Thu) Received: from rochester.UUCP by seismo.CSS.GOV with UUCP; Thu, 22 Aug 85 12:55:45 EDT Received: by ur-seneca.rochester.arpa id AA29742 (4.12o); Thu, 22 Aug 85 12:40:06 edt Received: by ccice5.UUCP (4.22/4.7) id AA08425; Thu, 22 Aug 85 12:03:53 EDT Message-Id: <8508221603.AA08425@ccice5.UUCP> To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Newsgroups: net.announce In-Reply-To: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Organization: CCI, Central Engineering, Rochester, NY Date: 22 Aug 85 12:03:47 EDT (Thu) Status: RO Gene, The only substantial objection I would have to your proposed newsgroup change would be with net.abortion and net.origins. I don't read these groups (so don't really have a personal interest in them), but it would seem to be a mistake to put any group likely to have heated discussion in a net.flame category. Who decides what's heated? How long does heated discussion have to go on before the newsgroup is put in the net.flame category? (It sounds like a penalty box in hockey -).) Couldn't any group turn into a net.flame subgroup? Just some thoughts... Tim. From seismo!harvard!axiom!smk Thu Aug 22 13:43:50 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA28523; Thu, 22 Aug 85 13:43:42 edt Posted-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 12:09:46 edt Received: from harvard.ARPA (HARVARD.HARVARD.EDU) by seismo.CSS.GOV with SMTP; Thu, 22 Aug 85 12:58:13 EDT Received: from axiom by harvard.ARPA with UUCP; Thu, 22 Aug 85 12:59:08 EDT Received: by axiom.UUCP (4.12/4.7) id AA01929; Thu, 22 Aug 85 12:09:46 edt Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 12:09:46 edt From: seismo!harvard!axiom!smk (Steven M. Kramer) Message-Id: <8508221609.AA01929@axiom.UUCP> Organization: Axiom Technology Phone: (617) 965-8010 To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes In-Reply-To: your article <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Status: RO As I posted a week ago, I think mod.map.uucp is fine as is. This will allow us to get parallel info on BITNET, CSNET, ARPA, so we can add those names to our db's. Even though those other nets are fully connected, and the word map is a misnomer, I think it would be worthwhile to get info on them also. From riddle%zotz.UTEXAS.ARPA@ut-sally.UUCP Thu Aug 22 19:42:21 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA01924; Thu, 22 Aug 85 19:42:14 edt Posted-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 16:30:42 cdt Received: from zotz.UTEXAS (zotz.UTEXAS.ARPA) by ut-sally.ARPA (4.22/4.22) id AA03903; Wed, 21 Aug 85 16:39:31 cdt Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 16:30:42 cdt From: riddle%zotz.UTEXAS.ARPA@ut-sally.UUCP (Prentiss Riddle) Message-Id: <8508212130.AA06792@zotz.UTEXAS> Received: by zotz.UTEXAS (4.24/4.22) id AA06792; Wed, 21 Aug 85 16:30:42 cdt To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Status: RO Newsgroups: net.announce In-Reply-To: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Two comments: (1) Chuq Von Rospach went through quite a process several months ago of trying to come up with a rational scheme for newsgroup names. He did it via a mailing list on which he a got a lot of suggestions and feedback. His scheme was further-reaching than anything you've proposed, which is why he decided it couldn't be pulled off and abandoned it, but I suspect that the discussion he led could give you a good bit of insight into a set of reasonably attainable newsgroup reforms. (2) I like all of the suggestions in this posting with two exceptions: Suggestion 7: move "net.abortion" to "net.flame.abortion" Suggestion 8: move "net.origins" to "net.flame.origins" I don't read the newsgroups in question but I can readily believe that they have degenerated into heavy flaming; nevertheless, to put them as subgroups of net.flame would only legitimize the flaming and make serious discussion absolutely impossible. If you must move them under other headings, consider "net.politics.abortion" or "net.med.abortion" and "net.sci.origins" or "net.religion.origins". --- Prentiss Riddle ("Aprendiz de todo, maestro de nada.") --- {ihnp4,harvard,seismo,gatech}!ut-sally!riddle riddle@ut-sally.UUCP --- riddle@ut-sally.ARPA, riddle%zotz@ut-sally, riddle%im4u@ut-sally From ihnp4!watmath!watcgl!mwherman Thu Aug 22 21:08:01 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA02320; Thu, 22 Aug 85 21:07:56 edt Posted-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 12:51:25 edt Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP id AA15156; 22 Aug 85 08:28:16 CDT (Thu) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 12:51:25 edt From: Michael W. Herman Message-Id: <8508211651.AA24175@watcgl.UUCP> To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes [specifically net.columbia] References: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Status: RO I read net.columbia to get reasonably current info on the space shuttle program. Renaming it to net.space implicitly defines a group with a wider subject area and hence I am voting AGAINST the suggested change. There is also the argument against changing the semantics of an existing or pre-existing entity (i.e. net.space). Maybe net.sci.shuttle might be an appropriate name for net.columbia? Michael Herman Computer Graphics Laboratory Department of Computer Science University of Waterloo Waterloo, Ontario, Canada N2L 3G1 UUCP: {allegra,decvax,ihnp4,utcsri}!watmath!watcgl!mwherman CSNET: mwherman%watcgl@waterloo.CSNET ARPA: mwherman%watcgl%waterloo.CSNET@csnet-relay.ARPA From cbosgd!ihnp4!watmath!watmum!cdshaw Thu Aug 22 22:42:37 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA02948; Thu, 22 Aug 85 22:42:22 edt Posted-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 19:32:21 edt Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA06838; Thu, 22 Aug 85 21:55:34 edt Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP id AA06839; 22 Aug 85 20:10:18 CDT (Thu) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 19:32:21 edt From: Chris Shaw Message-Id: <8508212332.AA13111@watmum.UUCP> To: spaf@cbosgd.UUCP Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Newsgroups: net.announce In-Reply-To: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Organization: U. of Waterloo, Ontario Status: RO I think all of your group change ideas are good, except net.abortion/origins. The names are too long, but the intent is good. Unfortunately, the only good names are along the lines of net.flame.abrt net.flame.org Chris Shaw watmath!watmum!cdshaw or cdshaw@watmath University of Waterloo In doubt? Eat hot high-speed death -- the experts' choice in gastric vileness ! From ihnp4!saber!msc Thu Aug 22 23:58:07 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA03998; Thu, 22 Aug 85 23:57:59 edt Posted-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 09:37:53 pdt Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP id AA29800; 22 Aug 85 16:34:51 CDT (Thu) Received: by saber.uucp (4.12/Saber-1.1) id AA27115; Thu, 22 Aug 85 09:37:53 pdt Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 09:37:53 pdt From: ihnp4!saber!msc (Mark Callow) Message-Id: <8508221637.AA27115@saber.uucp> To: ihnp4!gatech!spaf Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Status: RO All the changes seem reasonable. The only one I have any comment about is dropping net.columbia. I used to read net.space and net.columbia but the volume on net.space was way above the level I could handle while most of the stuff I was interested in was in net.columbia. So I unsubscribed. Rather than wading through net.space to find what I'm interested in I rather have a subgroup net.space.columbia or net.space.shuttle. -Mark Callow From jack@rlgvax.UUCP Fri Aug 23 00:15:32 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA04504; Fri, 23 Aug 85 00:15:25 edt Posted-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 23:24:05 EDT Received: by rlgvax.UUCP; Thu, 22 Aug 85 23:24:05 EDT Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 23:24:05 EDT From: Jack Waugh Message-Id: <8508230324.AA10617@rlgvax.UUCP> To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes In-Reply-To: your article <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Status: RO I think Suggestion 7 to move "net.abortion" to "net.flame.abortion" is overly cynical. Someone might conceivably come up with some new insight on abortion. If "abortion" were subordinate to "flame", posting anything of value would almost be against the ground rules. I'd say leave net.abortion alone. Jack Waugh, ICS '78 From ihnp4!mit-eddie!gds Fri Aug 23 00:33:24 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA04591; Fri, 23 Aug 85 00:33:17 edt Posted-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 10:14:17 edt Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP id AA05560; 22 Aug 85 19:36:50 CDT (Thu) Received: by mit-eddie.MIT.EDU (4.12/4.8) id AA00453; Thu, 22 Aug 85 10:14:17 edt Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 10:14:17 edt From: Greg Skinner Message-Id: <8508221414.AA00453@mit-eddie.MIT.EDU> To: ihnp4!gatech!spaf Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Status: RO References: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Instead of dropping net.columbia, why not make it net.space.columbia and leave net.space? As far as subgrouping net.flame, I wouldn't, but I can see that certain groups like net.origins are constantly cross-posted to net.flame, so I suppose it makes no difference. From cbosgd!pur-ee!davy Fri Aug 23 02:33:58 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA06308; Fri, 23 Aug 85 02:33:52 edt Posted-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 08:25:56 EST Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA08991; Fri, 23 Aug 85 00:18:54 edt Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 08:25:56 EST From: davy@pur-ee.UUCP (Dave Curry) Received: by ee.Purdue.EDU; Thu, 22 Aug 85 08:25:56 EST (5.5/5.20) Message-Id: <8508221325.AA04165@ee.Purdue.EDU> To: spaf@cbosgd.UUCP Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Newsgroups: net.announce In-Reply-To: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Organization: Purdue Engineering Computer Network, West Lafayette, IN Cc: Status: RO Re: Suggestion number 6: drop net.columbia in favor of net.space PLEASE don't. Net.space discusses all sorts of silliness, whereas net.columbia is restricted more or less to the shuttle. That's why it was formed originally, and every time this subject comes up (every year, it seems) we discuss it for a while, and most people prefer to keep net.columbia. --Dave Curry From cbosgd!pur-ee!pucc-k!rsk Fri Aug 23 08:11:10 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA09542; Fri, 23 Aug 85 08:11:05 edt Posted-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 01:48:03 est Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA10707; Fri, 23 Aug 85 03:40:12 edt Received: from pucc-k by ee.Purdue.EDU; Fri, 23 Aug 85 01:50:21 EST (5.5/5.20) Received: by pucc-k; Fri, 23 Aug 85 01:48:03 est Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 01:48:03 est From: Wombat Message-Id: <8508230648.AA03857@pucc-k> To: cbosgd!spaf@ecn Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Newsgroups: net.announce In-Reply-To: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Organization: Purdue University Cc: Status: RO In article <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> you write: >I am posting this to net.announce for public comment... Yes! Do it! Fervent Wombat -- Rich Kulawiec rsk@pur-ee.uucp rsk@purdue.uucp rsk@purdue-asc.arpa From cbosgd!ucbvax!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!mtuxo!pegasus!lzwi!psc Fri Aug 23 11:08:41 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA10992; Fri, 23 Aug 85 11:08:23 edt Posted-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 09:11:43 edt Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA14580; Fri, 23 Aug 85 10:11:05 edt From: ucbvax!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!mtuxo!pegasus!lzwi!psc Received: by UCB-VAX.ARPA (4.24/5.3) id AA12536; Fri, 23 Aug 85 06:53:49 pdt Received: by ulysses.UUCP; Fri, 23 Aug 85 09:11:43 edt Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 09:11:43 edt Message-Id: <8508231311.AA13234@ulysses.UUCP> To: pegasus!mtuxo!houxm!mhuxt!mhuxr!ulysses!ucbvax!cbosgd!spaf Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes In-Reply-To: your article <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Status: RO As a reader of both net.space and net.columbia, I would prefer these to remain separate news groups. The former occasionally fills up with silly discussions, whereas the latter has (very!) timely info. You might consider making net.columbia "net.shuttle" (more apt now ) or "net.sci.space.shuttle". (Whew!) -Paul S. R. Chisholm The above opinions are my own, {pegasus,vax135}!lzwi!psc not necessarily those of any {mtgzz,ihnp4}!lznv!psc telecommunications company. (*sigh* ihnp4!lzwi!psc does *NOT* work!!! Use above paths.) --- -Paul S. R. Chisholm The above opinions are my own, {pegasus,vax135}!lzwi!psc not necessarily those of any {mtgzz,ihnp4}!lznv!psc telecommunications company. (*sigh* ihnp4!lzwi!psc does *NOT* work!!! Use above paths.) "Of *course* it's the murder weapon. Who would frame someone with a fake?" From ulysses!burl!rcj Fri Aug 23 14:09:43 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA12683; Fri, 23 Aug 85 14:09:34 edt From: Posted-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 13:47:05 edt Received: by ulysses.UUCP; Fri, 23 Aug 85 13:47:05 edt Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 13:47:05 edt Message-Id: <8508231747.AA18274@ulysses.UUCP> To: mark@cbosgd.UUCP, ulysses!gatech!spaf Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Newsgroups: net.news.group,net.columbia In-Reply-To: <4193@alice.UUCP> References: <289@sesame.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Technologies @ Burlington, NC Cc: ulysses!allegra!alice!alb Status: RO Gene (and Mark), I, and the 3/4 of my users here who do read net.columbia, strongly object to the motion suggesting that it be removed in favor of net.space. Almost none of our users read net.space; and as Adam pointed out in his article, net.columbia is one of the most solid, steady, on-track groups around -- relatively low but stable traffic, no tangents, just what we want. Please take this as several votes not to destroy one of the few groups that meets the original ideas put forth when the net was created. And thanks to Adam for a very good article stating the views of many. The MAD Programmer -- 919-228-3313 (Cornet 291) alias: Curtis Jackson ...![ ihnp4 ulysses cbosgd mgnetp ]!burl!rcj ...![ ihnp4 cbosgd akgua masscomp ]!clyde!rcj P.S.: Gene, I write to you often enough -- how about dropping me an L.sys (Systems, whatever) entry for gatech and a request for mine if you find you don't already have it? From cbosgd!gatech!hplabs!sdcrdcf!psivax!friesen Fri Aug 23 14:19:53 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA12801; Fri, 23 Aug 85 14:19:45 edt Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA14942; Fri, 23 Aug 85 11:05:29 edt Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA10715; Fri, 23 Aug 85 10:47:51 edt Posted-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 18:06:45 pdt Received: by HP-VENUS id AA02566; Fri, 23 Aug 85 05:04:15 pdt Received: by RDCF.SDC.UUCP (sdcrdcf) [4.12/0.2] id AA01202; Fri, 23 Aug 85 02:06:59 pdt Received: by psivax.UUCP (4.12/4.7) id AA14130; Thu, 22 Aug 85 18:06:45 pdt Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 18:06:45 pdt From: hplabs!sdcrdcf!psivax!friesen@gatech.GTNET (Stanley Friesen) Message-Id: <8508230106.AA14130@psivax.UUCP> To: spaf@cbosgd.UUCP Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Newsgroups: net.announce In-Reply-To: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Organization: Pacesetter Systems Inc., Sylmar, CA Cc: Status: RO In article <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> you write: > >Suggestion 1: move "net.bio" to "net.sci.bio" >Suggestion 2: move "net.astro" to "net.sci.astro" >Suggestion 3: move "net.physics" to "net.sci.physics" >Suggestion 4: move "net.space" to "net.sci.space" The above four suggestions make sense to me. It would consolidate the science groups in one place. >Suggestion 5: combine "net.cse" and "net.college" into a (new) "net.edu" Also a good idea, I see almost no traffic on these anyway, so the combe should not cause any problems. >Suggestion 6: drop "net.columbia" in favor of "net.space" (see #4) Sounds nice, but it might be confusing. People would tend to continue posting old type net.space stuff here. Perhasp a time delay of a month or so between moving net.space and renaming this group? >Suggestion 7: move "net.abortion" to "net.flame.abortion" >Suggestion 8: move "net.origins" to "net.flame.origins" I do not think so. These groups really are *not* flame groups. The posters may sometimes get carried away, but there is at least some effort at decorum here. I suggest leaving them where they are. I tend to use them as Type 2 entertainment groups. -- Sarima (Stanley Friesen) {trwrb|allegra|cbosgd|hplabs|ihnp4|aero!uscvax!akgua}!sdcrdcf!psivax!friesen or {ttdica|quad1|bellcore|scgvaxd}!psivax!friesen From cbosgd!seismo!philabs!aecom!werner Fri Aug 23 20:33:04 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA14586; Fri, 23 Aug 85 20:32:57 edt Posted-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 07:22:54 edt Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA18431; Fri, 23 Aug 85 19:32:16 edt Received: from cmcl2.UUCP by seismo.CSS.GOV with UUCP; Fri, 23 Aug 85 18:58:53 EDT Received: by NYU-CMCL2.ARPA; Fri, 23 Aug 85 18:10:39 edt Received: by philabs.uucp (4.12/3.14) id AA21490; Thu, 22 Aug 85 07:22:54 edt Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 07:22:54 edt From: Return-Path: Message-Id: <8508221122.AA21490@philabs.uucp> Sender: seismo!philabs!aecom!werner Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes To: spaf@cbosgd.UUCP Status: RO To: philabs!cmcl2!seismo!cbosgd!spaf References: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Well, maybe for the last two suggestions, create subgroups net.abortion.flame, net.origins.flame (I assume those two suggestions were in jest) Keep net.columbia. net.space gets too much gateway from ARPA, and except for occasional digressions, it rarely strays from the timely shuttle updates (Thanks to Adam Buchsbaum, I believe.) Mixed feelings about the bunching into net.sci.all. Probably better to leave it be. I recently recieved a letter in jest that net.med should become net.med net.med.holistic net.med.flame and net.med.werner (or perhaps mod.med.werner) [That last is a quote. Do not consider it a suggestion in the least.] From chris@TORONTO.CSNET Sat Aug 24 06:47:31 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA18898; Sat, 24 Aug 85 06:47:26 edt Posted-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 08:30:31 edt Message-Id: <8508241047.AA18898@gatech.GTNET> Received: from toronto by csnet-relay.csnet id a008191; 23 Aug 85 21:41 EDT Received: by utcsri.UUCP (4.24/5.1.UofT) id AA01387; Fri, 23 Aug 85 08:30:31 edt Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 08:30:31 edt From: Chris Ngan To: spaf@gatech.CSNET Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Newsgroups: net.announce In-Reply-To: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto News-Path: spaf@gatech.UUCP Cc: Received: from CSNet-Relay by GaTech; 24 Aug 85 3:16:03-EDT (Sat) Status: RO From ulysses!allegra!novavax!don Sat Aug 24 09:26:30 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA20357; Sat, 24 Aug 85 09:26:22 edt Posted-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 14:09:55 edt Received: by ulysses.UUCP; Sat, 24 Aug 85 09:03:40 edt Received: by novavax.UUCP (4.12/4.7) id AA25328; Fri, 23 Aug 85 14:09:55 edt Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 14:09:55 edt From: ulysses!allegra!novavax!don (Don Joslyn) Message-Id: <8508231809.AA25328@novavax.UUCP> To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes In-Reply-To: your article <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Status: RO I vote for leaving the group names alone. :-) Thank you for asking, Don Joslyn {allegra, neoucom, ucf-cs}!novavax!don From cbosgd!seismo!mcnc!duke!bek Sat Aug 24 21:22:37 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA23973; Sat, 24 Aug 85 21:22:32 edt Posted-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 16:25:29 edt Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA28293; Sat, 24 Aug 85 19:30:22 edt Received: from cmcl2.UUCP by seismo.CSS.GOV with UUCP; Sat, 24 Aug 85 19:05:00 EDT Received: by NYU-CMCL2.ARPA; Sat, 24 Aug 85 18:14:11 edt Received: by philabs.uucp (4.12/3.14) id AA26091; Fri, 23 Aug 85 23:47:47 edt Return-Path: Received: from mcnc by pepe (4.12/4.7) id AA18933; Fri, 23 Aug 85 16:28:38 edt Received: from duke by mcnc (4.12/4.7) id AA18344; Fri, 23 Aug 85 16:29:01 edt Received: by duke (4.12/4.7) id AA27152; Fri, 23 Aug 85 16:25:29 edt Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 16:25:29 edt From: Barrett E. Koster Message-Id: <8508232025.AA27152@duke> To: spaf@cbosgd.UUCP Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Newsgroups: net.announce In-Reply-To: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Organization: Duke University, Durham NC Cc: Status: RO I hope you do NOT take the suggestion to move net.abortion to net.flame.abortion seriously. I assume someone was merely attempting to make a cute editorial comment about the contents of that group, which you cannot change by renaming anyway. Barrett Koster {mcnc,decvax,...}!duke!bek From ihnp4!ihopa!riccb!rjnoe Sat Aug 24 23:06:06 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA24669; Sat, 24 Aug 85 23:05:59 edt From: Posted-Date: 22 Aug 85 22:54:40 CDT (Thu) Message-Id: <8508250305.AA24669@gatech.GTNET> Date: 22 Aug 85 22:54:40 CDT (Thu) Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP id AA13060; 22 Aug 85 22:54:40 CDT (Thu) To: ihopa!ihnp4!cbosgd!gatech!spaf Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Status: RO In-Reply-To: your article <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> I like all the ideas you put forth except one: I do not like the idea of dropping net.columbia and redirecting all that discussion into net.space or net.sci.space. columbia has served very well in getting across the "bulletins" (news less than two days old :-) while space languishes in the monotony of pseudo-theoretical considerations. One is for NEWS, the other is for discussions of space science. I never have liked the name of the newsgroup, I would lean to net.shuttle rather than net.columbia, but this has been tried several times in the past and I am tired of trying to change it. No, if anything makes sense to delete, it would be the current net.space. It's an unused newsgroup compared to net.columbia! -- Roger Noe ihnp4!ihopa!riccb!rjnoe From cbosgd!ihnp4!sask!hardie Sat Aug 24 23:40:04 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA25082; Sat, 24 Aug 85 23:39:57 edt Posted-Date: Sat, 24 Aug 85 15:02:24 cst Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA28605; Sat, 24 Aug 85 20:23:01 edt Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP id AA16691; 24 Aug 85 18:44:34 CDT (Sat) Received: by sask.UUCP (4.12/4.7) id AA21587; Sat, 24 Aug 85 15:02:24 cst Date: Sat, 24 Aug 85 15:02:24 cst From: ihnp4!sask!hardie (Peter Hardie ) Message-Id: <8508242102.AA21587@sask.UUCP> To: ihnp4!ucbvax!cbosgd!spaf Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes References: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Status: RO I gotta coupla comments about moving net.origins and net.abortion under net.flame. It seems to me that the intent of this is to make it easier for those sites that don't receive net.flame to automatically unsubscribe from the other two. However, this is hardly fair to the INTENT of the groups themselves to be consigned as a subgroup of net.flame. I don't read net.abortion but I assume it is pretty similar to net.origins and although they both have their share of garbage, neither deserves to be lumped under the heading of flame. This also leads to my second point that putting them under net.flame will probably cause many users to assume, by implication, that those groups are specifically for flaming about abortion and origins, rather than as a forum for discussion. If I'm right about the reasoning for putting them there in the first place then the same reasoning could also be used to lump net.religion, net.politics and lots of other contentious- type groups under net.flame. If I'm wrong then perhaps you could post why the suggestion was made in the first place. Pete Hardie ihnp4!sask!hardie From cbosgd!seismo!ut-sally!shell!neuro1!baylor!peter Sun Aug 25 05:04:33 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA28144; Sun, 25 Aug 85 05:04:26 edt Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA01743; Sun, 25 Aug 85 03:46:32 edt Received: from ut-sally.UUCP by seismo.CSS.GOV with UUCP; Sun, 25 Aug 85 02:48:55 EDT Received: from ut-ngp.ARPA (ut-ngp.UTEXAS.ARPA) by ut-sally.ARPA (4.22/4.22) id AA10468; Sun, 25 Aug 85 00:25:11 cdt Posted-Date: Sat, 24 Aug 85 07:52:34 cdt Received: by ut-ngp.ARPA (4.22/4.22) id AA23782; Sat, 24 Aug 85 23:55:31 cdt Received: by shell.UUCP (4.12/4.7) id AA22102; Sat, 24 Aug 85 08:30:28 cdt Received: by neuro1.UUCP (4.13a/4.10sob) id AA02047; Sat, 24 Aug 85 08:21:50 CDT Received: by baylor.UUCP (4.12/4.7) id AA10611; Sat, 24 Aug 85 07:52:34 cdt Date: Sat, 24 Aug 85 07:52:34 cdt From: seismo!ut-sally!shell!neuro1!baylor!peter (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <8508241252.AA10611@baylor.UUCP> To: spaf@cbosgd.UUCP Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes In-Reply-To: your article <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Status: RO Move net.unix-wizards to net.flame.unix? I'm sorry to have caused all this trouble, really. I just ran into the 47,000th problem in SV and the frustrations reached critical mass. From linus!utzoo!henry Sun Aug 25 09:48:31 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA29959; Sun, 25 Aug 85 09:48:26 edt From: Posted-Date: Sun, 25 Aug 85 05:30:09 edt Received: by linus.UUCP (4.12/4.7) id AA09015; Sun, 25 Aug 85 05:30:09 edt Date: Sun, 25 Aug 85 05:30:09 edt Message-Id: <8508250930.AA09015@linus.UUCP> To: linus!gatech!spaf Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes References: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Status: RO > Suggestion 6: drop "net.columbia" in favor of "net.space" (see #4) The intent is that net.columbia is news, while net.space is chit-chat. This seems to work out fairly well; it should not be changed. Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry From cbosgd!gatech!hplabs!sdcrdcf!sdcsvax!ncr-sd!greg Sun Aug 25 14:49:35 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA01704; Sun, 25 Aug 85 14:49:27 edt Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA03952; Sun, 25 Aug 85 12:40:33 edt Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA00324; Sun, 25 Aug 85 10:48:12 edt Posted-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 11:11:52 pdt From: Received: by HP-VENUS id AA14300; Fri, 23 Aug 85 13:24:16 pdt Received: by RDCF.SDC.UUCP (sdcrdcf) [4.12/0.2] id AA05182; Fri, 23 Aug 85 12:10:42 pdt Received: by sdcsvax.ARPA (4.24/4.41) id AA29253; Fri, 23 Aug 85 11:11:52 pdt Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 11:11:52 pdt Message-Id: <8508231811.AA29253@sdcsvax.ARPA> To: spaf@cbosgd.UUCP Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Newsgroups: net.announce In-Reply-To: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Organization: NCR Corporation, Rancho Bernardo Cc: Status: RO In article <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> you write: >Suggestion 6: drop "net.columbia" in favor of "net.space" (see #4) Given the volume of net.columbia and net.space, I would oppose this. If they were combined, I would have to drop them; I simply don't have the time to plow through the net.space traffic to find the articles on the Space Shuttle. At least you should suggest \moving/ it to net.space.columbia, which I will grant is more logical. -- -- Greg Noel, NCR Rancho Bernardo Greg@ncr-sd.UUCP or Greg@nosc.ARPA From cbosgd!ihnp4!duke!phs!paul Sat Aug 24 08:32:11 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA20261; Sat, 24 Aug 85 08:32:06 edt Posted-Date: 24 Aug 85 00:06:45 CDT (Sat) Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA22068; Sat, 24 Aug 85 02:34:08 edt From: ihnp4!duke!phs!paul Message-Id: <8508240634.AA22068@cbosgd.ATT.UUCP> Date: 24 Aug 85 00:06:45 CDT (Sat) Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP id AA16658; 24 Aug 85 00:06:45 CDT (Sat) To: duke!ihnp4!cbosgd!spaf Status: RO To: duke!ihnp4!cbosgd!spaf Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes References: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Your suggestions 7 and 8 are ridiculous and offensive. Unless, of course, you wish to encourage flaming and/or to make a display of your disdain for these groups. Regards, Paul Dolber (...duke!phs!paul). PS: If you do go with 7 and 8, why not net.flame.news.groups? From cbosgd!cbosgd.ATT.UUCP!mark Sat Aug 24 21:22:53 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA23979; Sat, 24 Aug 85 21:22:44 edt Posted-Date: Sat, 24 Aug 85 19:51:26 edt Received: from cbpavo.cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (cbpavo.ARPA) by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA28424; Sat, 24 Aug 85 19:50:16 edt Received: by cbpavo.cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.24/3.14) id AA00790; Sat, 24 Aug 85 19:51:26 edt Date: Sat, 24 Aug 85 19:51:26 edt From: mark@cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (Mark Horton) Message-Id: <8508242351.AA00790@cbpavo.cbosgd.ATT.UUCP> To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: net.columbia Status: RO As you can see, net.columbia has a strong emotional support. I suspect that in a major reorganization it might be possible to rename it net.space.shuttle, but given the minor nature of the proposed changes, I think politically it would be very hard to even change the name. Mark From akgua!cuuxb!uokvax!lmaher Mon Aug 26 03:54:43 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA06524; Mon, 26 Aug 85 03:54:36 edt Posted-Date: Sun, 25 Aug 85 23:20:28 cdt Message-Id: <8508260754.AA06524@gatech.GTNET> Date: Sun, 25 Aug 85 23:20:28 cdt From: lmaher@uokvax.UUCP (Carl Rigney) To: cuuxb!akgua!gatech!spaf Subject: Newsgroup changes Status: RO > The first proposal currently before the net is to rename some groups > and thus provide a more meaningful and consistent name scheme. > > Change 1: rename "net.notes" to "net.news.notes" > Change 2: rename "mod.map.uucp" to "mod.map" > Change 3: rename "net.chess" to "net.games.chess" I agree with all three of these changes. I recall that once upon a time there was a net.games.chess, and it was removed in favor of the top level group. > Secondly, I have gotten the follow suggestions on which I > would appreciate feedback (other suggestions are also welcome): > > Suggestion 1: move "net.bio" to "net.sci.bio" > Suggestion 2: move "net.astro" to "net.sci.astro" > Suggestion 3: move "net.physics" to "net.sci.physics" I agree with the first 3 changes, and suggest there should be a net.sci as well for generic discussions of science not handled by the subgroups. Perhaps that should be net.psi.physics. :-( > Suggestion 4: move "net.space" to "net.sci.space" net.space Space, space programs, space related research, etc. This suggests the group is also for discussion on space that does not involve science (i.e. its effects on society, etc.). I think it would be better to keep it as a top-level group. > Suggestion 5: combine "net.cse" and "net.college" into a (new) "net.edu" This seems OK, although the new group is considerably broader than the union of the sub-groups. > Suggestion 6: drop "net.columbia" in favor of "net.space" (see #4) I heavily disagree with this. As others have pointed out, net.columbia is for "timely announcements and information on the space shuttle" while net.space is for "discussions on space." I think it's a good idea to keep them separate. > Suggestion 7: move "net.abortion" to "net.flame.abortion" > Suggestion 8: move "net.origins" to "net.flame.origins" To make it easier for SA's to cut off all of net.flame*? I consider these two groups even more worthless than net.flame, since in the immortal words of Chris Henrich, "The point of net.flame is not the intrinsic importance of the subject matters, but the possibility of low drama (human emotion in the raw) and occasional flights of original invective." While on the topic of trimming down the net, I think its time to discuss killing net.bizarre, an experiment which has clearly failed. While the original idea was good, a newsgroup for bizarre reports of real life and whimsical articles like Stupid People's Court, its become the sort of morass net.jokes has, and worse. People are posting license plates, town and street names, and even jokes. I imagine it won't be too long before we see Light Bulb Jokes appear in it. I say, put it out of our misery. Better yet, make it mod.bizarre, so the truly original and funny stuff can still be read, without idiots posting 1000 line stories filled with in jokes. The time has come for net.bizarre to fold its tents and fade away into the night. --Carl Rigney USENET: {ihnp4,allegra,cbosgd}!cuuxb!uokvax!lmaher "You needn't thank me for telling you all this, the havoc created shall be my reward." From rick@seismo.UUCP Mon Aug 26 17:22:14 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA14251; Mon, 26 Aug 85 17:22:06 edt Posted-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 85 15:50:23 EDT Received: by seismo.CSS.GOV; Mon, 26 Aug 85 15:50:23 EDT Date: Mon, 26 Aug 85 15:50:23 EDT From: Rick Adams Message-Id: <8508261950.AA12374@seismo.CSS.GOV> To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: net.columbia Status: RO eirk fairs idea of net.space.shuttle makes a lot of sense to me. --rick From cbosgd!gatech!hplabs!qantel!proper!judith Mon Aug 26 10:41:22 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA10262; Mon, 26 Aug 85 10:41:01 edt Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA09845; Mon, 26 Aug 85 09:00:08 edt Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA08272; Mon, 26 Aug 85 07:55:34 edt Posted-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 85 00:41:53 pdt Date: Mon, 26 Aug 85 00:41:53 pdt From: Received: by HP-VENUS id AA00937; Mon, 26 Aug 85 00:41:53 pdt Message-Id: <8508260741.AA00937@HP-VENUS> To: spaf@cbosgd.UUCP Status: RO To: qantel!hplabs!gatech!cbosgd!spaf Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Newsgroups: net.announce In-Reply-To: <> Organization: Proper UNIX, Oakland CA >Suggestion 7: Move "net.abortion" to "net.flame.abortion" >Suggestion 8: Move "net.origins" to "net.flame.origins" An enthusiastic Yes! Wish you could somehow strain the flames out of net.politics, net.women, and net.med & put them in separate groups too. I don't know whether you guys ever get any *friendly* mail about your efforts, but I'm really impressed by your dedication, stamina, & grace under pressure. I hope other users are too. From akgua!psuvax1!PSUVM.BITNET!T3B Fri Aug 23 00:37:48 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA04607; Fri, 23 Aug 85 00:37:35 edt Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 00:37:35 edt From: Posted-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 00:37:35 edt Message-Id: <8508230437.AA04607@gatech.GTNET> Apparently-To: spaf Status: RO Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 21:42 EDT From: T3B@PSUVM.BITNET To: spaf@gatech.UUCP Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes References: 1430@cbosgd.UUCP Reply-to: psuvm.bitnet!T3B In response to the suggestions to rename the abortion and origins groups to what appears to be a subordinate category to flame: this strikes me as a bad suggestion, because it turns a perhaps temporary condition into a rule. Discussion in these groups gets heated or irresponsible, I suppose; but to identify them as flame groups simply says that the whole issue is irretrievable. That does not allow for development in more sensible directions--and is in any case merely pejorative of democracy. -- Tom Benson Penn State University 227 Sparks Bldg., University Park, PA 16802 814-238-5277 (ATT) {akgua,allegra,ihnp4,cbosgd}!psuvax1!psuvm.bitnet!t3b (UUCP) T3B@PSUVM (BITNET) 76044,3701 (COMPUSERVE) From cbosgd!cbosgd.ATT.UUCP!mark Fri Aug 23 02:36:01 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA06316; Fri, 23 Aug 85 02:35:56 edt Posted-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 00:23:05 edt Received: from cbpavo.cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (cbpavo.ARPA) by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA09065; Fri, 23 Aug 85 00:22:33 edt Received: by cbpavo.cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.24/3.14) id AA00947; Fri, 23 Aug 85 00:23:05 edt Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 00:23:05 edt From: mark@cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (Mark Horton) Message-Id: <8508230423.AA00947@cbpavo.cbosgd.ATT.UUCP> To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: mismailed Status: RO >From ut-sally!brian@ihnp4.uucp Thu Aug 22 23:19:29 1985 Received: from cbosgd.ATT.UUCP by cbpavo.cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.24/3.14) id AA00866; Thu, 22 Aug 85 23:19:25 edt Return-Path: Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA07413; Thu, 22 Aug 85 23:18:42 edt Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP id AA10418; 22 Aug 85 21:32:30 CDT (Thu) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 11:50:18 cdt From: ut-sally!brian@ihnp4.uucp (Brian H. Powell) Posted-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 11:50:18 cdt Message-Id: <8508221650.AA20665@ut-sally.ARPA> Received: by ut-sally.ARPA (4.22/4.22) id AA20665; Thu, 22 Aug 85 11:50:18 cdt To: mark@cbosgd.ATT.UUCP Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes In-Reply-To: your article <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Status: R >Suggestion 1: move "net.bio" to "net.sci.bio" >Suggestion 2: move "net.astro" to "net.sci.astro" >Suggestion 3: move "net.physics" to "net.sci.physics" >Suggestion 4: move "net.space" to "net.sci.space" I'd like to go on the record opposing these. I don't feel THAT strongly about it, but I'd prefer the current names. Do we have to start creating so many subgroups of subgroups of groups? I mean science is pretty broad; maybe net.sci.math, net.sci.cse, net.sci.space are called for. I don't think so, but maybe you do. >Suggestion 5: combine "net.cse" and "net.college" into a (new) "net.edu" I could go along with that, but I fear that net.edu would get a lot of traffic that didn't do much with college or cse. I bet a lot of things would get cross-posted with net.kids. I DON'T want that. (Not that I have anything against kids... I used to be one myself. I just don't think the kind of traffic on net.kids is the kind we would want on net.edu.) >Suggestion 6: drop "net.columbia" in favor of "net.space" (see #4) Hmm. The thing I like about a separate shuttle newsgroup is that virtually everything pertains to the shuttle. If everything were combined, I'd have to ignore somebody's question on the Mercury project while they ignore the messages about tracking the shuttle so you can see it when it passes overhead. >Suggestion 7: move "net.abortion" to "net.flame.abortion" >Suggestion 8: move "net.origins" to "net.flame.origins" Funny, and maybe move "net.news.group" to "net.flame.change". Brian H. Powell brian@ut-sally.UUCP brian@ut-sally.ARPA, soon to be brian@sally.UTEXAS.EDU U.S. Mail: Southwestern Bell P.O. Box 5899 451-0842 Austin, TX 78763-5899 AT&T (512) 451-0842 From seismo!utah-gr.UTAH-CS!utah-cs!thomas Thu Aug 22 19:19:24 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA01657; Thu, 22 Aug 85 19:19:19 edt Posted-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 14:57:38 MDT Received: from utah-cs.UUCP by seismo.CSS.GOV with UUCP; Thu, 22 Aug 85 18:06:36 EDT Received: by utah-cs.ARPA (5.5/4.40.2) id AA03883; Thu, 22 Aug 85 16:06:25 MDT Received: by utah-gr.ARPA (5.5/4.40.2) id AA23360; Thu, 22 Aug 85 14:57:38 MDT Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 14:57:38 MDT From: seismo!utah-gr.UTAH-CS!utah-cs!utah-gr!thomas (Spencer W. Thomas) Message-Id: <8508222057.AA23360@utah-gr.ARPA> To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: net.columbia Status: RO I don't read net.space. I do read net.columbia. I would prefer to keep it that way. From cbosgd!cbosgd.ATT.UUCP!mark Thu Aug 22 14:18:17 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA28883; Thu, 22 Aug 85 14:17:59 edt Posted-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 11:09:25 edt Received: from cbpavo.cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (cbpavo.ARPA) by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA00640; Thu, 22 Aug 85 11:09:02 edt Received: by cbpavo.cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.24/3.14) id AA00205; Thu, 22 Aug 85 11:09:25 edt Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 11:09:25 edt From: mark@cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (Mark Horton) Message-Id: <8508221509.AA00205@cbpavo.cbosgd.ATT.UUCP> To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: bounced mail (again) Status: RO >From Postmaster@packard.uucp Thu Aug 22 04:39:34 1985 Received: from cbosgd.ATT.UUCP by cbpavo.cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.24/3.14) id AA07983; Thu, 22 Aug 85 04:39:30 edt Return-Path: Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA04023; Thu, 22 Aug 85 04:35:45 edt Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 01:14:43 edt From: Postmaster@packard.uucp (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <8508220817.AA06035@py/garage/packard.DK> Received: from topaz.UUCP by py/garage/packard.DK; 8508220817 To: MAILER-DAEMON@cbosgd.ATT.UUCP Status-Message: Message-Status: Returned mail: User unknown Original-Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Original-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 01:14:43 edt Original-Recipient: barmar Status: R ----- Transcript of session follows ----- barmar... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 01:14:43 edt From: packard!cbosgd.ATT.UUCP!MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <8508220555.AA03014@cbosgd.ATT.UUCP> Received: from harvard.ARPA (harvard.harvard.edu) by topaz.arpa; Thu, 22 Aug 85 04:13:26 edt Received: from mit-eddie by harvard.ARPA with UUCP; Thu, 22 Aug 85 04:14:05 EDT Received: from harvard.ARPA (900000a) by mit-eddie.MIT.EDU (4.12/4.8) id AA17269; Thu, 22 Aug 85 03:54:39 edt Received: from packard by harvard.ARPA with UUCP; Thu, 22 Aug 85 03:58:50 EDT Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA03014; Thu, 22 Aug 85 01:55:43 edt Received: from cbosgd.UUCP by py/garage/packard.DK; 8508220635 Received: from topaz.UUCP by py/garage/packard.DK; 8508220817 To: harvard!think!mit-eddie!barmar ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 spaf... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA03006; Thu, 22 Aug 85 01:55:43 edt Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 01:14:43 edt From: Barry Margolin Subject: Newsgroup changes Message-Id: <8508220514.AA15026@mit-eddie.MIT.EDU> Received: from harvard.ARPA (harvard.harvard.edu) by topaz.arpa; Thu, 22 Aug 85 01:34:40 edt Received: from think by harvard.ARPA with UUCP; Thu, 22 Aug 85 01:35:28 EDT Received: by GODOT.THINK.COM; Thu, 22 Aug 85 01:33:19 edt Received: by mit-eddie.MIT.EDU (4.12/4.8) id AA15026; Thu, 22 Aug 85 01:14:43 edt Received: from topaz.UUCP by py/garage/packard.DK; 8508220538 To: spaf@cbosgd This is in response to Suggestion 6, "drop net.columbia in favor of net.space." I would prefer that you NOT implement this suggestion. I read net.columbia, but not net.space, as I like reading discussion about the shuttle program, but I do not wish to wade through the volume of net.space in order to find it. Barry Margolin ARPA: barmar@MIT-Multics UUCP: ..!genrad!mit-eddie!barmar From beth@GYMBLE.ARPA Thu Aug 22 06:48:35 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA24012; Thu, 22 Aug 85 06:48:29 edt Posted-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 14:42:35 edt Received: from gymble.arpa by csnet-relay.arpa id a000344; 21 Aug 85 15:20 EDT Received: by gymble.ARPA (4.12/4.7) id AA21563; Wed, 21 Aug 85 14:42:35 edt Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 14:42:35 edt From: Beth Katz Message-Id: <8508211842.AA21563@gymble.ARPA> To: spaf%gatech@csnet-relay.csnet Subject: Newsgroup changes Received: from CSNet-Relay by GaTech; 22 Aug 85 3:09:23-EDT (Thu) Status: RO Gene- First of all, if someone just uses the 'r' option of rn to reply to you, they are going to get screwed up. My mail was returned. This version should get to you. All of the suggestions make sense. However, I only read net.cse and net.college of those groups affected. I think they could be combined into net.education. People seem to crosspost to them anyway. I hope the research work is going well. Will you be roaming the university curcuit in search of employment? Will you be visiting Maryland? If so, drop me a note and we might be able to make your stay a bit more enjoyable. Beth Katz Dept. of CS - Univ. of Maryland {seismo,allegra}!umcp-cs!beth From akgua!ucf-cs!peora!jer Thu Aug 22 11:09:28 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA26932; Thu, 22 Aug 85 11:09:20 edt Posted-Date: Thursday, 22 Aug 1985 08:12-EDT Received: by ucf-cs.UUCP (4.12/4.7) id AA04147; Thu, 22 Aug 85 08:16:58 edt From: ucf-cs!peora!jer Date: Thursday, 22 Aug 1985 08:12-EDT To: spaf@gatech.GTNET X-From: jer@peora.UUCP (J. Eric Roskos) Message-Id: <99.493560779@peora> Status: RO To: spaf@gatech.UUCP Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes In-reply-to: USENET article <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> > Suggestion 6: drop "net.columbia" in favor of "net.space" (see #4) Count this as a vote against the above action. I am very interested in the space shuttle, and not at all interested in other topics in net.space. The current level of discussion in net.columbia is just right; I wouldn't have time to read it if I had to sift through net.space to do so. -- Shyy-Anzr: J. Eric Roskos UUCP: ..!{decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!vax135!petsd!peora!jer US Mail: MS 795; Perkin-Elmer SDC; 2486 Sand Lake Road, Orlando, FL 32809-7642 "Gurl ubyq gur fxl/Ba gur bgure fvqr/Bs obeqreyvarf..." From ihnp4!darwin!darwin.UUCP!ian Mon Aug 26 20:38:06 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA16449; Mon, 26 Aug 85 20:37:59 edt Posted-Date: Sat, 24 Aug 85 09:54:20 edt Message-Id: <8508270037.AA16449@gatech.GTNET> Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP id AA17703; 26 Aug 85 12:27:56 CDT (Mon) Received: by darwin.UUCP (4.24/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA00684; Sat, 24 Aug 85 09:54:20 edt Date: Sat, 24 Aug 85 09:54:20 edt From: ihnp4!darwin!ian (Ian F. Darwin) To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Status: R Agree with all except merging net.columbia with net.sci.space. They have very different charters, and different (though clearly overlapping) charters. Columbia is for operational newsbreaks about shuttles (and also discussion of shuttle technology); space is for science and technology of space in general. I for one read net.columbia but not net.space, and would not like to have to wade through all of net.space each time there's a shuttle launch. At any rate, thanks for all the effort you put into being The Watcher of The Net. Ian From cbosgd!wucs!afinitc!jlc Wed Aug 28 00:44:23 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA08981; Wed, 28 Aug 85 00:44:15 edt Posted-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 85 08:55:11 cdt Received: by cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (4.12/0.98.UUCP-CS.beta.4-27-85) id AA03887; Wed, 28 Aug 85 00:21:52 edt Received: by wucs.WU.UUCP; Tue, 27 Aug 85 08:55:11 cdt Date: Tue, 27 Aug 85 08:55:11 cdt From: afinitc!wucs!jlc Message-Id: <8508271355.AA04462@wucs.WU.UUCP> To: cbosgd!wucs!spaf Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes References: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Status: R Gene, Personally, I am opposed to the proposed dropping of net.columbia with the transferring of news for that group to net.sci.space. Columbia is supposed to be for discussions and information about the shuttle program, while space is for more general discussions of space, space research, and the space program. I read columbia all the time, but found the articles in space to be unint- esting and have unsubscribed from that group. I would hate to have to weed through net.sci.space for articles on the shuttle. While your moving groups around though, if your going to move net.chess to a subgroup of games then perhaps net.rec.bridge should also be moved to net.games.bridge. Gerald L. Collins [...!ihnp4!wucs!afinitc!jlc] From riddle%zotz.UTEXAS.ARPA@ut-sally.UUCP Mon Aug 26 23:55:22 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA18325; Mon, 26 Aug 85 23:55:12 edt Posted-Date: Sun, 25 Aug 85 11:58:22 cdt Received: from zotz.UTEXAS (zotz.UTEXAS.ARPA) by ut-sally.ARPA (4.22/4.22) id AA14872; Sun, 25 Aug 85 12:03:10 cdt Date: Sun, 25 Aug 85 11:58:22 cdt From: riddle%zotz.UTEXAS.ARPA@ut-sally.UUCP (Prentiss Riddle) Message-Id: <8508251658.AA13936@zotz.UTEXAS> Received: by zotz.UTEXAS (4.24/4.22) id AA13936; Sun, 25 Aug 85 11:58:22 cdt To: ihnp4!tektronix!tekig4!stevenh Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes (2nd try to reach stevenh@tekig4) Cc: spaf@gatech.GTNET Status: RO Newsgroups: net.news.group In-Reply-To: <227@tekig4.UUCP> In article <227@tekig4.UUCP> you write: > >> Suggestion 2: move "net.astro" to "net.sci.astro" >> Suggestion 3: move "net.physics" to "net.sci.physics" >> Suggestion 4: move "net.space" to "net.sci.space" >> Suggestion 6: drop "net.columbia" in favor of "net.space" (see #4) > >I think these four groups are doing just fine the way they are. These groups >have enough traffic that they should be their own groups and not be subgroups. I don't think the amount of traffic in a group has much to do with whether it should be a top-level group or a subgroup. The reasons for moving groups around have to do with (1) user-interface questions -- we want a logical newsgroup space so netusers can easily find appropriate groups for their postings, and (2) the need to reduce the number of top-level groups because of the way groups are stored on Unix file systems. (Am I right, Gene?) If groups have low traffic, the current response of the net wizards out there is not to *move* groups, but to *delete* them. I think your other points (about net.columbia and the proposed net.flame subgroups) are well taken. --- Prentiss Riddle ("Aprendiz de todo, maestro de nada.") --- {ihnp4,harvard,seismo,gatech}!ut-sally!riddle riddle@ut-sally.UUCP --- riddle@ut-sally.ARPA, riddle%zotz@ut-sally, riddle%im4u@ut-sally From cbosgd!ukma!david Wed Aug 21 21:23:28 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA19535; Wed, 21 Aug 85 21:23:04 edt Posted-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 15:09:12 edt Received: by ukma.UUCP (4.12/4.7) id AA06931; Wed, 21 Aug 85 15:09:12 edt Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 15:09:12 edt From: david@ukma.UUCP (David Herron, NPR Lover) Message-Id: <8508211909.AA06931@ukma.UUCP> To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Newsgroups: net.announce, In-Reply-To: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Organization: Univ. of KY Mathematical Sciences Cc: Status: RO Since you wanna move abortion and origins (?why?) into flame, put religion and politics in there as well...? Otherwise it looks like a good list. The problem I see with the newsgroups is that they're "cluttered". There are multiple groups for the same subjects. And related groups are far apart on the list. I'm sure part of the reason for "I missed part x of y" postings appear in net.sources is because net.wanted.sources is far away from net.sources.* on the lists. -- --- David Herron --- ARPA-> ukma!david@ANL-MCS.ARPA --- UUCP-> {ucbvax,unmvax,boulder,oddjob}!anlams!ukma!david --- {ihnp4,decvax,ucbvax}!cbosgd!ukma!david Hackin's in me blood. My mother was known as Miss Hacker before she married! From seismo!harvard!talcott!sesame!stuart Fri Aug 23 10:02:01 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA10214; Fri, 23 Aug 85 10:01:54 edt From: Posted-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 02:17:15 EDT Received: from harvard.ARPA (HARVARD.HARVARD.EDU) by seismo.CSS.GOV with SMTP; Fri, 23 Aug 85 02:17:18 EDT Date: Fri, 23 Aug 85 02:17:15 EDT Message-Id: <8508230617.AA24326@seismo.CSS.GOV> Received: from talcott by harvard.ARPA with UUCP; Fri, 23 Aug 85 02:18:15 EDT To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: here it goes again Status: RO The auto-reply path got barfed upon (probably because I replied to a net.announce posting), so here's my second sending: Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes References: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Why don't you add one to your tentative list of changes: net.tv.drwho to net.drwho? See a followup to Allan Percus' (acf4!percus, I believe) posting which proposes the idea. I am enclosing my followup, since I have it handy (author_copies being what they are): >From postnews Wed Aug 21 19:44:31 1985 Subject: Re: Change of name to 'net.drwho' Newsgroups: net.tv.drwho References: <5020007@acf4.UUCP> That is a very good idea and one that has been in the back of my mind as well. Like Star Trek, DW enjoys other media besides the TV aspect. I am getting interested in the comics as well (ever since I started reading my friend's when he would bring them home!). The novelisations are a medium that are also deserving of attention (even though I haven't read any of them). Anyway, the name change is something that I still consider unnecessary as long as one knows what the group is about, if just because people will just get confused. Being lazy, I wouldn't mind a shorter name, though, if there is a net admin. who wouldn't mind changing it AND there is a consensus among readers of this group. I am curious to hear Spaf's opinion on this... end quote. Have you an opinion on this? Thanks for suffering through this radiation. Stuart Freedman {genrad|ihnp4|ima}!wjh12!talcott!sesame!stuart Data General Corp. {cbosgd|harvard}!talcott!sesame!stuart Westboro, MA or mit-eddie!futura!stuart I'm too busy reading other people's cute quotes to think of any of my own. From seismo!mcvax!ukc!eagle.ukc.ac.uk!dcl-cs.uucp!stephen Wed Aug 28 02:03:07 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA09525; Wed, 28 Aug 85 02:02:57 edt Posted-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 21:02:33 bst Received: from mcvax.UUCP by seismo.CSS.GOV with UUCP; Wed, 28 Aug 85 01:38:50 EDT Received: by mcvax.UUCP; Tue, 27 Aug 85 20:40:41 +0200 (MET) Received: by mcvax.UUCP; Tue, 27 Aug 85 20:40:36 +0200 (MET) Message-Id: <8508271840.AA27698@mcvax.UUCP> Received: from [lancftp] by ukc.AC.UK id a014262; 22 Aug 85 21:03 BST From: "Stephen J. Muir" Date: Thu, 22 Aug 85 21:02:33 bst To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Newsgroups: net.announce In-Reply-To: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Organization: Department of Computing at Lancaster University. Cc: Status: RO In article <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> you write: >Change 1: rename "net.notes" to "net.news.notes" >Change 2: rename "mod.map.uucp" to "mod.map" >Change 3: rename "net.chess" to "net.games.chess" Yes. >Suggestion 1: move "net.bio" to "net.sci.bio" >Suggestion 2: move "net.astro" to "net.sci.astro" >Suggestion 3: move "net.physics" to "net.sci.physics" >Suggestion 4: move "net.space" to "net.sci.space" >Suggestion 5: combine "net.cse" and "net.college" into a (new) "net.edu" >Suggestion 6: drop "net.columbia" in favor of "net.space" (see #4) Yes. >Suggestion 7: move "net.abortion" to "net.flame.abortion" What's abortion got to do with flaming? >Suggestion 8: move "net.origins" to "net.flame.origins" What has the origin of life got to do with flaming? -- UUCP: ...!seismo!mcvax!ukc!dcl-cs!stephen DARPA: stephen%lancs.comp@ucl-cs | Post: University of Lancaster, JANET: stephen@uk.ac.lancs.comp | Department of Computing, Phone: +44 524 65201 Ext. 4599 | Bailrigg, Lancaster, UK. Project:Alvey ECLIPSE Distribution | LA1 4YR From akgua!pruxc!ayf Wed Aug 28 15:37:28 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA19355; Wed, 28 Aug 85 15:37:13 edt Date: Wed, 28 Aug 85 15:37:13 edt From: Posted-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 85 15:37:13 edt Message-Id: <8508281937.AA19355@gatech.GTNET> To: akgua!gatech!spaf Subject: net.culture.jewish Status: RO Gene, I greatly enjoyed your article. I am enclosing to you a copy of a letter I sent to Adam Beslove. As far as I can tell, and I read net.religion.jewish, there is neither the need for a new group nor was there any positive agreement from the net members. What makes the situation worse, in my opinion, is that this newsgroup creation was stated as forming a precedent for posting in net.announce. At least we should expect that there net "rules" would be followed. Avi Feldblum AT&T Tech - ERC uucp: {allegra,ihnp4}!pruxa!ayf or pruxc!ayf P.S. I have not heard back from Adam. -----------------Start of Letter----------------------- >From ayf Mon Aug 26 11:26:46 1985 >To: cbosgd!beslove >Subject: New newsgroup >Status: RO Adam, I saw your posting this morning in net.announce concerning the creation of a new newsgroup net.culture.jewish. I remember the proposal of this in net.religion.jewish, and the followups to that proposal were mainly opposed to the creation of a new newsgroup. I also do not remember any significant discussion in net.news.group on the new newsgroup. Did you receive significant mailings in support of such a new group (and what do you consider significant)? I do not think such a splintering of net.religion.jewish is needed or constructive. All views and issues have been expressed, and the size of the group is not huge (it has not made top 25 in the last posting from seismo). Avi Feldblum AT&T Tech - ERC uucp: {allegra,ihnp4}!pruxc!ayf or pruxa!ayf -------------------END------------------------------------ From seismo!rochester!bukys Thu Aug 29 17:49:39 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA04952; Thu, 29 Aug 85 17:49:32 edt Posted-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 85 16:53:46 edt Received: from rochester.UUCP by seismo.CSS.GOV with UUCP; Thu, 29 Aug 85 17:32:49 EDT Received: by ur-seneca.rochester.arpa id AA11434 (4.12o); Thu, 29 Aug 85 16:53:46 edt Message-Id: <8508292053.11434@ur-seneca.rochester.arpa> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 85 16:53:46 edt From: Liudvikas Bukys To: spaf@gatech.GTNET Subject: re newsgroup suggestions Status: RO YES Suggestion 1: move "net.bio" to "net.sci.bio" YES Suggestion 2: move "net.astro" to "net.sci.astro" YES Suggestion 3: move "net.physics" to "net.sci.physics" NO Suggestion 4: move "net.space" to "net.sci.space" YES Suggestion 5: combine "net.cse" and "net.college" into a (new) "net.edu" NO Suggestion 6: drop "net.columbia" in favor of "net.space" (see #4) NO Suggestion 7: move "net.abortion" to "net.flame.abortion" NO Suggestion 8: move "net.origins" to "net.flame.origins" "net.space" isn't science; technology maybe. "net.columbia" should be separate; "net.space.shuttle" is ok, but so is status quo. creation of newsgroups for flaming only encourages people to flame, so they should not be created. "net.flame" should be abolished. "net.women", "net.abortion" should not have been created. "net.origins", "net.politics", "net.religion" are arguable, but barely. Liudvikas Bukys bukys@rochester.arpa From ihnp4!cuae2!heiby Fri Aug 30 15:59:19 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA04119; Fri, 30 Aug 85 15:59:16 edt From: Posted-Date: 29 Aug 85 11:53:28 CDT (Thu) Message-Id: <8508301959.AA04119@gatech.GTNET> Date: 29 Aug 85 11:53:28 CDT (Thu) Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP id AA21795; 29 Aug 85 11:53:28 CDT (Thu) To: ihnp4!gatech!spaf Subject: Re: More Newsgroup Changes Newsgroups: net.announce In-Reply-To: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Organization: AT&T, /app/eng, Lisle, IL Cc: Status: R Re your additional suggestions, I like them all! Go for it! Ron. From bhayes@SU-GLACIER.ARPA Fri Aug 30 21:06:06 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA07278; Fri, 30 Aug 85 21:06:02 edt Posted-Date: 30 Aug 1985 1601-PDT (Friday) Message-Id: <8508310106.AA07278@gatech.GTNET> Received: from su-glacier.arpa by csnet-relay.arpa id a000275; 30 Aug 85 19:04 EDT Date: 30 Aug 1985 1601-PDT (Friday) From: Barry Hayes To: spaf%gatech.csnet@csnet-relay.csnet Cc: Barry Hayes Subject: lang problem Received: from CSNet-Relay by GaTech; 30 Aug 85 21:00:08-EDT (Fri) Status: R As a reader of both groups, I wish something could be done to make net.lang and net.nlang less confusable... -b From ihnp4!utzoo!lsuc!msb Sun Sep 1 02:11:08 1985 Received: by gatech.GTNET (4.12/5.3.GaTech) id AA19539; Sun, 1 Sep 85 02:11:05 edt From: Posted-Date: 31 Aug 85 12:52:37 CDT (Sat) Message-Id: <8509010611.AA19539@gatech.GTNET> Date: 31 Aug 85 12:52:37 CDT (Sat) Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP id AA11966; 31 Aug 85 12:52:37 CDT (Sat) To: utzoo!ihnp4!gatech!spaf Subject: More Newsgroup Changes Status: R To: utzoo!ihnp4!gatech!spaf Subject: More Newsgroup Changes References: <1430@cbosgd.UUCP> Cc: Sorry about the late response; we had a news feed delay locally. > Change 1: make it "net.news.notes" > Change 2: make it "mod.map" > Change 3: make it "net.games.chess" > Suggestion 1: make it "net.sci.bio" > Suggestion 2: make it "net.sci.astro" > Suggestion 3: make it "net.sci.physics" > Suggestion 4: make it "net.sci.space" I give an enthusiastic YES to all of these. I might add net.math and net.med to the groups to be moved under net.sci. (Whether math belongs under sci is a philosophical question, of course.) > Suggestion 5: combine "net.cse" and "net.college" into a (new) "net.edu" No comment. I've never read either. Sounds good, I suppose. > Suggestion 6: drop "net.columbia" in favor of "net.space" (see #4) Certainly not. I like the net.space.shuttle suggestion somebody had. > Suggestion 7: move "net.abortion" to "net.flame.abortion" > Suggestion 8: move "net.origins" to "net.flame.origins" Certainly not. These groups belong as top level groups because nobody can agree on what they are about. (Is it net.religion.abortion, net.politics.abortion, net.legal.abortion, net.consumers.abortion :-), net.religion.origins, net.sci.origins, net.bizarre.origins :-) ...) I would approve of a move to bring all the "issues discussion" groups under a grand top level group. Say, net.issues.flame, net.issues.abortion, net.issues.politics, net.issues.taxes, net.issues.women (non-flame issue discussion goes to net.social), etc. Chuq and I exchanged a few messages about this when he proposed a grand reorganization some months ago, but I don't seem to have kept any of that mail. If this triggers your fancy you might ask him for what was said; otherwise I suggest leaving net.origins and net.abortion as is. Mark Brader